SQF for Beginners: What to Expect in Your First Year

Tammie Van Buren: All right, my time has hit 12 noon. I am located in central time. however, I know many of you are joining from Eastern time and it is 1:00 and we're going to go ahead and get started. Thank you all for joining us today. you are going to be a part of the webinar titled SQF for beginners what to expect in your first year. So I know many of you out there probably are just starting your SQF journey or maybe you just recently started it or maybe you've been around a while and thought you'd join and listen to me and Kim talk today. So all of that is fine and we'll be answering all kinds of questions at the end. So feel free to put your questions in the chat and Koo is in the background helping us. So if there are any issues, he is monitoring that as well. So again, thank you all for joining us. We are so excited to be here to talk to you today about what to expect in your first year. Joining me today is Kim Sobotka. She's one of my friends. I love hanging out with Kim. we've been to many SQF conferences together. We've conducted many webinars together.

So I'm so happy to be joined by Kim today. you can see on the screen she has over 20 years experience in food safety in that sector. And so she currently works for KMA, one of our certification bodies here at SQF. but I've known her ever since I started with SQF almost seven years ago. So, Kim, welcome.

Kim Sobotka: Thank you. Thank you, Tammie. Hi, everyone.

Tammie Van Buren: So, we're going to get started. as always, we put our FMI SQFI antitrust statement up here. you guys will be putting things in the chat. I don't expect that you're going to put anything that violates our antitrust statement, but just in case, we always like to have this reminder. you are more than welcome to ask for a copy of this. We would be happy to send it out to you, but we're not going to let those conversations go into those areas we can't talk about, such as boycotting and price fixing and market territories. we're not going to be dividing any markets up today. So, again, we are going to talk about food safety and the certification process. And we're again happy to answer all your questions. Don't go away without having your questions answered because Kim, that's what we're here for. All right, Kim. So, I'm going to kick it off to you and let you do a little bit of chatting here.

Kim Sobotka: Okay. So, again, hello everyone. Thank you for joining us. as Tammie said, we've done a lot of these together. So, for those of you that have not officially started the process yet, one of the first questions as a certification body that I ask, have you already, had a GMP HACCP inspection or are you truly starting from scratch? in a typical GMP HACCP inspection obviously they're going to cover things like food defense food fraud self inspections but with the expectations sitting the SQF expectations sitting on top of that they're going to talk about management review and document control and some things that Tammie will get into a little bit later as you're going through the steps but basically if you have had a GMP or HACCP audit previously. It's a great start. There are differences. SQF is bigger and more complex than just an average GMP audit which is why it's a global standard. if you're not already GMP HACCP certified, there's things you can do too which we will get into a little bit later. but it is going to be a bigger learning curve because you're going to have to learn all about HACCP and all about SQF.

So basically your starting point is you either have had no food safety previously or you have the foundation of HACCP and GMP and then SQF will build upon that. Absolutely. just to introduce you to a little bit of terminology here at SQF we call parts of our code modules. So Kim mentioned a lot of different things that are in those modules. module two is what we refer to as our system elements. So that has those things that management review, internal audits, those things that Kim mentioned there versus our GMP modules which for addition nine for food manufacturing module 11 is that GMP module which has a lot of those facility inspection things in it. So, just to introduce you all to a little bit of terminology as you get started in your SQF journey, but that's kind of what Kim was talking about. Module two, system elements versus a GMP module, right?

Kim Sobotka: Okay. So, there are different things to consider and you can actually see that there's a barcode on here that will take you over to the SQF website. There's different things to consider. some facilities are obviously more developed than others and that's why you're here because every everybody's got to build the program if they're going to go through SQF certification regardless of where you start. So things to consider are your own team's strengths and resources. you might have hired somebody that came from another facility that operated under, the HACCP and GMP program or an SQF program. developing these programs to meet the requirements are different than managing them. That is one thing to take into consideration when you're when you're get starting this journey. consultants I'm a strong believer in consultants. I know they have a strong place in SQF. So much so that with this QR code, it's going to take you to a list of licensed consultants with SQFI so that they truly do know the standard. I don't know anything about what these individual consultants charge, but one thing to keep in mind is you get what you pay for.

And if you end up using a consultant that is not an expert in the SQF arena, then it may end up costing you more in the long run because your audit score will dictate how often you have to have this audit. So, hiring an expert can speed up the process. in addition to training courses that are available on the SQFI website or any licensed SQF training center and again if you use this QR code it's kind of like this mass directory that you get there you can find codes and checklists consultants certification body guidance documents training courses Tammie what else did I miss oh yeah there's so much so I love that Kim talked about consultants. one of the horror stories that I hear several times a year is that a company hired a consultant and then they ended up, as you said, they got what they paid for, but it wasn't what they wanted. So, making sure that you use this QR code if you are going to hire a consultant. And just a reminder, a consultant there is to help you, to assist you, to kind of get you started throughout that process.

You still have to develop your own people because your consultant can't be your practitioner which is your primary person responsible for SQF, but they are certainly there to guide, direct you, assist you as you start this journey. So, please use this QR code. find a registered SQF consultant. We register them by food sector categories. So if you're a bakery, for example, and you're looking for someone that's an expert in bakery, that has experience in baked goods processing, then you can find that using this QR code. So you go to our directory and you can find those consultants, where they're located, and you can see their background. And so you can find someone who has FSC 13 because we register them by their experience and as Kim said, they've had the training in SQF. They've been through SQF training. So they met the minimum requirements to be a registered consultant. And if they're not on that list, I would really question their background and their experience.

So, and I'm going to talk about all those other resources when we get to the end, too, because as Kim said, there is so much on our website available to you all if you're just starting out or if you've been around for a little while.

Kim Sobotka: And let me just add one more thing, Tammie, before you go on. Get using a consultant is not mandatory. There's a lot of things to factor in with that. The time constraint that you're under. Maybe you have a customer that said, "I want you certified by the end of the year." And you don't simply have the manpower. It might not have anything with not having the competency to build these programs. And but it can certainly streamline the process, but it is not mandatory. I just wanted to add that, Tammie.

Tammie Van Buren: Thank you for pointing that out because I mean I came out of a out of certified sites and so I never did use a consultant just because I did have the resources and the knowledge inhouse to build those programs. so I'm glad you pointed out that is not mandatory and that may be an expense as Kim said it is a separate expense. Maybe that's something that you don't want to add into that process. So, glad you added that on. All right, let's talk about time frame. How long should it take to get this SQF certificate in hand?

Kim Sobotka: Okay, so in my opinion, and Tammie's is going to differ just a little bit different than mine, but here is what I tell people every day. the process can is really based on your timeline and when you build the program and you go through all of the annual checks that you have to do before you go through your initial audit. the auditor needs to see a minimum of 3 months of records. If you are manufacturing 7 days a week, you're going to build a lot of those records quicker than if you're manufacturing one time a month. So, so if you're manufacturing like a normal facility five or six days a week and you run multiple shifts, you're going to build records quicker and your time frame is going to be shortened. But again, it's also about making sure those programs are in place and tested prior to I even with a consultant the minimum is going to be 3 months because once they build it, it's your system. You have to learn your system and understand it. a consultant cannot, be there to intervene during the audit.

I think that's really cracking down coming up, between the current version and the new version coming out. so, and we'll get into that a little bit later, but your minimum time frame to get certified is 3 months. But what I can tell you, if you're supplying to somebody such as Costco or Walmart or Target or one of those big guys and they tell you that they want you certified by July 1st and it's March 1st, and you've never had any type of food safety audit before, once you start working with a certification body, and we'll get into that a little bit later because it's the same with all CBs, we are able to provide you with a letter telling Walmart that you have entered into a contract with whatever that certification body is and that your audit is scheduled for the end of July and they're going to understand that you're not going to hit July 1st, not because you're you're not able to, but because it's going to take you that long to build the records and have supporting documentation.

Tammie Van Buren: Exactly. Building the records and certification bodies, they're scheduling three to six months out. So, that's what you're going to see regardless of the certification body that you select is, you can't call today and get on the schedule for next week. So, that's not that's not possible. So, so yeah, so point that out. the retailers, they are, very open to, seeing where you're at in that journey and see that you're moving towards getting that as well. So, we've got a question in the chat. So, it's about time frame. So, we're going to go ahead and we're going to talk about it now. is the time frame the same for a distribution center, that ships grocery, perishable, and freezer product that runs seven days a week?

Kim Sobotka: Tammie, yeah, I would say yes, it is going to be the same. And as a distribution center, there is a separate code from food manufacturing. It's you'll we'll we'll get into the differences hopefully a little bit later in the presentation. But in terms of distribution, you getting product in and out every day, you are going to build records than if you distribute product once or twice a week. That's the best way I can answer that.

Tammie Van Buren: Yeah. And just to add to just make sure too, Kim mentioned it, but I really want to emphasize, make sure you get those annual requirements done before you have your initial certification audit. For example, your annual internal audit. You want to do that beforehand. And Kim mentioned we have a new version coming out. I'll go over some dates at the end here. but for 2026, we're in Edition 9 and we will continue in Edition 9. but yeah, there will be a little bit of changes coming there because sites often overlook those annual requirements because they're like, I've only been operating for, three months or building those records and I don't need my annual internal audit. but you really do need that annual internal audit already done. Why would you do your audit without having your internal audit done to see, where things stand and catch those issues before that, third party auditor comes on site. So, just a reminder there. so we've talked about certification bodies. Kim, you work for one. Yes. Tell us how do we pick a certification body?

Kim Sobotka: Okay. So, on the directory, which of course, again, thank goodness for Koo that got all of these barcodes on there for us. there are a lot of certification bodies. these audits are a commodity. all of the licensed certification bodies can be found on the SQF website. ultimately you are entering into a partnership with the certification body you choose. So, there's got to be trust there. so what many people do that I talk to again regularly is they go to the SQF website and they pick out five and they contact all five of those. Some might call you back right away. Some might call you back in a day or two. just it's it's all up in the air. We're all human. We all operate differently. So, ultimately you're going to be in a partnership. you want to be able to trust them and have an open dialogue. as a certification body, we cannot consult you on what to do, but we can tell you what your options are. And that's that's really important to understand, just like mentioning consulting. It used to be taboo to talk about SQF and consulting at the same time. And consulting is okay.

So, so when you're choosing a certification body, it's somebody that you trust and you may maybe talk to two or three and then you make your decision. We're all offering a service and there's many factors that go into how you make that decision, but ultimately the ultimate goal is for you to have trust in them because you are entering into a partnership.

Tammie Van Buren: That is true. the good thing about our website, when you use this QR code and you go to our CB directory, you will see all, all 32 of our certification bodies. you can click on them. Kim says, try them on. there's links to their websites on from our website, from our directory. so check them out, see, go to their website, see what they're about, learn about them. We have large certification bodies. We have small certification bodies. We have them located all around the world. So, I'm like Kim, try out a few test drive, get some options and customer service as Kim was alluding to. Some, respond today, some may take a few days. So, see what fits with you. I we've got some we've got a certification buddy for everybody. there's a lot of differences there. So right and Tammie let me just add one more thing while we're talking about their decision. What can also impact your decision on whether you do work globally? There are some certification bodies that are global companies and some that deal in just like the US or the US and Canada.

So depending on who your customer is and where you're sending your product to, remember when you register and we'll get to the registration, but when you register in the SQF directory, your site is going into a global database. So if you are a bakery that makes a certain kind of cookie, anybody in the world can find you as a certified site. So, also keep in mind who you're sending your product to, who you're getting your product from, and whether there could be global collaboration if

Tammie Van Buren: No, absolutely. That's a great point. so yeah, we have a couple questions in the chat. So, we've got one about somebody that's going to transition. They've been AIB certified for 10 years and so they're going to trans transition to SQF and their question is it sounds like it might go a bit simpler than anticipated. I will say Kim I transitioned the site from AIB certification to SQF certification and we did have that GMP background. Yeah. that really, set the foundation for our SQF program. So, and one thing, let me add to that because I talked to a lot of people. It's funny when they call and say, "I'm AIB certified." Well, we know AIB started in the baking industry and they are great at what they do, right? I mean, we everybody who knows AIB knows that. but what that tells me is that you're like without doing anything else based on their GMP HACCP program, you're probably 30% of where you need to be. So your road is not going to be as long and it if you understand HACCP, there's there's nothing in the SQF code that's going to surprise you. It's very detailed and very direct of what the requirements are.

So, so being, GMP HACCP certified, AIB certified, NSF certified, any of those lower level of audits are going to put you somewhere around 30% of the way just without doing anything else and then you're going to build on top of that.

Tammie Van Buren: Okay, good deal. we have one more question. at what stage of the audit or actually this process do should sites find that certification body? And I don't know about you, Kim, I'll let you talk first and then I have an opinion. I'm I have a very strong opinion on that.

Kim Sobotka: Okay. So, that I'm glad that you asked that because it does vary greatly and I just know Tammie's going to say something different than what I'm saying in my opinion because it is a partnership. When you're starting that journey, you need to know who your certification body is going to be for a couple of reasons. Number one, the one of the first steps in going SQF is you're going to be registering on the SQF database as the registered site. It's an annual registration. It's everything about you and that's where the auditor conducts the audit and where you enter non-conformances. So, so fairly early on because there's going to be price differences. There's going to be the earlier you book, the better chances you are in terms of where your auditor is going to be. So, it cuts down on travel expenses, but it's going to be your resource. When you are stuck on something and you've got a consultant or you don't and you call your certification partner, you're going to be able to say where can I find this answer? And you're going to be directed to the directory with the correct code or the correct checklist to get that clarification.

So, in my opinion, that is one of the earlier steps that you take because you're going to be partnering with somebody that can help you take those steps in the right order.

Tammie Van Buren: And we agree with that. We agree completely on that, Kim. We are on the same page. My answer is always the sooner the better. So, I like that Kim focuses on the fact that it is a partnership. And so, I find that a lot of sites want to wait till kind of the last minute and get their CB and then, they're reaching out to SQF to help with some of those answers and clarifying code requirements and registering on the database and we certainly do try to help as much as possible. However, at the same time, we do have I know, for technical questions, we already have 14,000 sites that may be reaching out on any given day asking a technical question. So, when we have a new site that's reaching out, my first question is, do you have a certification body yet? Because they're a great resource. And so they only they may only have 200, clients or 500 clients or if they're a really large CB, they might have a thousand to 2,000 clients. but they are probably in a much better position to get you a quicker answer than we might be.

So, I love the idea that you're focused on it as a partnership. and then again speaking back to the CBs, they're scheduling three to six months out or in some cases further. So starting early, giving them an idea of what your goal is on when you want that certification will help them to help you plan and be prepared so that they can get you on that schedule to get you audited to meet your deadlines. So the sooner the better. find yourself a CB for sure. Okay.

Kim Sobotka: And one more thing before Tammie moves on. in terms of that. so she mentioned that you have to do an entire internal audit of your system. By the time you do that and you're ready for audit, you're looking at unless the lucky stars all line up on the same day, you're looking at a three-month timeline. It is okay to work with the certification body and say, "Okay, I'm starting out. I need this done by July 1st." And then to change that date because the certification body that you're working with can allocate, the a whatever auditor they're planning out a month or out two months. But wait, waiting until your system is up and running and you've done your internal audit, you're still looking at three or possibly longer time frame for that auditor with your food sector category to open up his calendar.

Tammie Van Buren: Exactly. So yeah, so the sooner the better. Find yourself a CB and they are a great resource to help you through this journey of SQF certification. All right, let's talk about the one thing that, people hate to talk about. Let's talk about the money. How much does it cost to get SQF certified?

Kim Sobotka: Okay, so I'm going to do part of this Tammie and then I, I want you to add in because SQF is a global certification, it's not a normally a simple one-day audit. As an example, manufacturing is going to be a two-day minimum audit. Period. so you can talk about two or three or 4 days. So cost is going to be varied based on the size of your operation and the number of employees and the number of HACCP programs that you have. Period. All certification bodies use the same and you'll see it in one of the appendixes of how we determine how many days your audit's going to be which means how much your audit's going to cost. So costs will vary by certification body to certification body. And let me just give you an example. There are some CBs that put their costs all in upfront. You've got your travel expense included so exactly what you're going to pay. You've got the scheme fee that the certification body pays SQF to be able to conduct your audit and use their system. you've got the audit fee itself. Some charge additional fees for corrective action review for administrative costs.

So costs can vary from certification body to certification body. But remember two slides ago we said shop around, find somebody you trust, see what the costs are, feel free to ask them are there any hidden costs that are not included in this. it's a common question. Every CB is asked that question. and then there the co there's the cost for SQF and Tammie I'll let you go over that cost.

Tammie Van Buren: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the steps in getting certification is to register in the SQF assessment database and that's via our website. I think that's what this QR code here takes you to is where you register for the audit within the within our database. And so once you register, it's a fee that you'll pay every year. typically it's about $650. it can go a little bit higher. it might be a little bit lower depending on what food sector you're in if you're in primary versus food manufacturing. So, it varies a little bit. but it's it's a fee that you'll pay every year to be registered in our database. and it again depends on how many food sector categories. If you have multiple food sector categories and there's multiple SQF codes that you have to be audited to then it adds a little bit. if you want to add on the quality code that's also an option that you would do as well when you are registering. So, so again, that QR code takes you there and so, you can kind of get a guideline on how much it's going to cost. but that is an annual fee that you do fill out to us.

Kim, I'm glad you said, there are differences in the way the CBs charge those costs. Some of them are all rolled up upfront. I have some CBs that charge some upfront I think but then travel cost is charged at cost and so that they don't know until the auditor gets there and gets the audit completed. So again there are multiple ways but compare and contrast and see what the differences are between the certification bodies and the different CBs. So we've got

Kim Sobotka: I see that question too and let me answer that because I want to add one more thing so people understand about going to the directory and registering. Okay. So when you when we go through the formal steps, everybody is going to hear, that registration is an annual registration. But what I tell people is that really is what I call a central repository. As a certification body, we cannot schedule your audit unless you're registered. we can't even get you on the calendar because we can't assign an auditor until you're registered when so the certification body is going to use it to schedule the SQF auditor. SQF is going to release the documents, those modules that she talked about that pertain to your site based on the food sector categories. The auditor is going to do the audit. You're going to get notified that you've got four non-conformances. then you're going to get into the system and enter the non-conformances. It bounces back to the auditor. He approves, disapproves, whatever. Then it goes to technical and then it the certificate is issued. But this is a global database.

So you're going to go like everybody in the world that is SQF certified is in this database. Hence why Tammie and her team are quite busy with technical questions every day from certification bodies, sites or whatever. So now getting to Greg's question. Sorry, Greg. I went the long way around. the cost for the directory is build by SQF. So the certification body is going to charge you a scheme fee and that's the fee. It's it's smaller. It's going to be like $125 of what your fee is as part of your audit. That is different. The directory fee once you register, you will get an invoice from SQF. Please, please pay it online and don't mail a check. they updated their system which is wonderful a year ago but if you don't click to pay online when that link comes to you there is going to be a delay which is going to delay your entire process but what you're paying for obviously is the cost of SQF operating this global program to put you in global food safety compliance.

Tammie Van Buren: Yeah. So, and just to clarify, the directory and the registration fee, those are the same. It's not two separate fees. So, you only pay SQF once a year. and that's to for the use of that database, that registration fee. You automatically are in the showing up in the global directory once you receive certification. So, you're not going to show up in the global directory until you've received your certificate. and so that's not a separate fee. Just to clarify, that registration gets your name in the directory once you're certified. So, but that was a great explanation of that. Daniel asked, "If we have multiple HACCP plans, does that cost more or does it just mean a longer audit?" So, could mean maybe. I sort of say maybe it depends is the right answer there. So yeah it depends on if those multiple HACCP plans cross multiple food sector categories which crosses multiple codes. So, if I have, let's say I'm a farmer and I have an apple farm and I'm FSC 3 and then I have an apple sauce processing plant. So now I'm also FSC 14. I now have two codes. Apple juice. Add apple juice to that. Apple juice. Yeah.

So, so now, so I could have I could have three or four or five HACCP plans, but it's based on the number of codes when it comes to registration, but length of the audit could be impacted by the number of HACCP plans depending on how similar those HACCP plans are and again, the size of the operation.

Kim Sobotka: So, and Tammie, let me add one thing here just from an everyday perspective that you probably don't hear. So, normally, Daniel, the threshold for the two-day audit that we talked about for manufacturing is up to three HACCP plans. But what people oftent times mistake is maybe they have 15 processing lines. And I've seen it. I've seen them turn in 15 HACCP plans. Mhm. And I asked them, "Does that mean you have 15 different processes?" Nope. We do chocolate chip cookies on one. We do one cookies with nuts on another because of the allergen issues. so, so really processes and HACCP don't equal. Most of the time in my 20 years of this I've seen maybe five to 10 sites that have more than three. I mean is that a fair assessment Tammie with That's probably Yeah. And a lot of sites I will refer to them as separate HACCP plans, but in reality they're making cookies. They're mixing, they're baking, they're packaging, and so it's the same processes. It's just a little bit different. it could be the exact same processes, just multiple lines. And sometimes we do refer to those as multiple HACCP plans, but in reality it's really all the same.

So make sure you and again that's one reason why I say get with your certification body early. The sooner the better so that you can explain that to them so they can understand and accurately determine this the length of your audit for sure. But like, if you're in a place and they're doing applesauce and they're doing apple juice and they're picking apples and they're doing apple slices and they're doing whole apples, those are different HACCP plans because those are completely different products. So, yeah. So, I think that's all on cost. We'll come back to a couple of the questions that I see in the chat here in just a second because we're kind of gonna get to our Q&A like right now. Okay. So, there was a question early on and I want to go back to that one first. So, in building records, what programs are we looking at in addition to already existing HACCP programs? so I'll I'll kind of take that question. the that would be a whole other webinar to be able to go through everything every program that you would need in addition to HACCP.

And it really is going to be sight specific. if you deal with a bunch of different allergens, then you're going to have a full-blown allergen program versus somebody that is doing apple slices who's only concerned about incidental allergens. So, just to be able to go through all the different programs, that would be a whole other webinar, of which we have, we have lots of webinars out there. we have a YouTube channel that you all can check out that has a just a whole library of webinars that we've done throughout the years. and you can find some good ones there.

Kim Sobotka: Tammie, I do want to add to that. just because there are certain ones that are like truly like I don't know, I don't want to say the foundation, but they make a difference. Number one, every site needs to designate a practitioner. And this is somebody that works there. They can't work around multiple sites. so dedicating a practitioner, and if what a HACCP coordinator is, it's kind of like that. It's a designation where somebody heads up this program and makes sure that everybody's doing their piece of this. obviously it's harder if one person's going to try to do this themselves. Yeah.

Management review ma management commitment is a big deal with SQF. as a food safety and quality person, you it would be like hitting your head against a brick wall every day if management is going to fight you. that won't work and it'll be very evident during that audit to the auditor if there is management commitment and if he actually listens to you and the third thing I want to talk about just be these three Tammie I know that you're the technical expert is the food safety culture again you can't be the only one worrying about this it needs to be management it needs to be supervisors it needs sanitation maintenance so truly the food safety culture I believe needs to start from the top and go down. Tammie might feel different, but just touching points on those. she gave you the QR codes once you figure out what SQF codes that you belong in again by shopping around, talking to a certification body because they're going to be a great resource for you. you're going to see with your own eyes what those expectations are. There's the checklist is provided to you from SQF. So, you're going to know exactly what that description is.

But I just wanted to mention management review, food safety culture, and SQF practitioner. So, that there was no question or missing on that. Oh, yeah. No, those are all some those are some of my favorite topics. Kim, you're talking my language here. so we've got a question. What if we have a section of our plant that is doing SQF and the rest of them different packaging? So, okay. So, here's the thing. You have to have your certification body for this part of the process. You have to apply to the certification body to exempt parts of the facility for certification and that has to be done before the audit. so you again need to do that sooner rather than later because it's not a matter of you saying, well, I'm I'm not going to certify this product or I'm not going to certify pro part that's in this packaging or things like that. It's it's a it's more complicated than that.

So, back to our cookie example, if I'm making chocolate chip cookies and on the same line I'm making, I oatmeal cookies and I only want to certify my chocolate chip cookies. that's not going to be possible because there are shared processes and shared equipment and there are things that would prevent you from exempting those products. So again, talk to your CB early so that there's no confusion. You must request in writing any exemptions and then once you get that approval, you have to have that approval on file. So when the auditor comes on site, you have to show them that you have written exemption by the certification body ahead of time. And then guess what? The entire facility is still going to be inspected. So even if you're exempting parts of it, the auditor will audit the entire or inspect the entire facility. So if you have a 100,000 square foot, they're going to walk the entire 100,000 square foot. they're not going to look at records related to something that's exempted. but they are going to inspect the entire facility. So just again keep that in mind.

Anything to add there Kim for I do I'm so sorry Tammie. just because I deal with such different topics than you do. Yeah. I can tell you going way back to SQF 2000 through all the addition sevens and eights and nines. That's a long time, Kim. I know. I know you're there with me, Tammie. so I can tell you in all of these years, working solid for certification bodies, I've had two that got, a space exempted. Let me tell you what my thought is and what I tell the people I partner with. Your site is a global food safety checked site. You can't say I am going to run an SQF program on one product and ignore the rest of the building. Leaky roofs, pest control, as Tammie said, the auditor's already going to look at it. Just certify the whole site. The only exception that would make sense is if you rent a space from a company, like and there's clear dividers. You can't control what he does over there. Hopefully, it's a another food company and not a tire company or a rubber company, but the, you might as well certify the whole site because it isn't going to cost more.

The auditor has to walk all 100,000 square foot anyway. and you don't want part of your employees doing a halfway decent job and the other operating and documenting everything under SQF. So I just wanted to add that Tammie. Yeah. No, that's a that's a great point. Not common. It is not common. Yeah. No, that's great. so we have another question on HACCP. so somebody's saying we have five lines that do hot filled sauces. So they have five separate food safety plans and then they have three different pestos. So internally they have eight food safety plans but for SQF we listed them as two. So you need to explain that to your certification body. because what you don't want to happen is you told your CB you had two and then you got on site and you laid out eight in front of the auditor because then that's going to create confusion and the auditor is going to have to call. So, just make sure everybody, yes, we have five plans, but they're really all the same because it's hot filled sauces, or we have three plans here, but really they're the same because they're all they're pestos. so again, it's about that communication.

Just, communicate with the certification body, with the auditor before the audit starts so that there's no delays. absolutely. And let me just add again, I'm sorry, Tammie. I want to add that hot sauces are hot sauces, which changes in those are potentially the ingredients. So, what I keep in my mind, and this is going to really date me, is how many HACCP binders do you have? You might have eight process flows, but really only like two binders, one for pesto and one for sauce. So, it really is important to understand if you've got five lines that do sauces, is it barbecue sauce? Is it hot sauce? a sauce is a sauce and you're manufacturing it the same way. So, in my mind, what I'm going to ask is how many binders do you have? I cannot imagine you having eight HACCP binders and truly being eight separate plans. Everything in the beginning is going to be same. it's going to change with the process flow and or ingredients or whether you heat it up or not. I mean there's there's factors like that but truly I would if you called me I would definitely question the eight.

Tammie Van Buren: Exactly. So yeah so you're going to ask questions they're going to answer. You all are going to figure it out and then you're going to get the right number used to u to determine the length. I have a question about practitioner. Can we have more? Excuse me. Can we have more than one practitioner? Well, the SQF code requires you have a minimum of two. You have to have a minimum of one primary and one backup. but you can have as many practitioners as you want. I've seen sites that have a practitioner on every single shift. so it's it's really, and that's the good thing I tell people about SQF is, we're global and so we've created this global certification program that allows I've got we've got companies that literally have two employees and they're working out of, 500 square feet and we've got these global organizations that have 150 locations. so the SQF code can be applied either direction and so yeah you can have more than one if you want but you at least have to have a primary and a backup.

So great question and let me add that the backup practitioner and this is my favorite thing to say that's a relatively new requirement with SQF that requires the backup. it's not going to go away. It doesn't. It needs to be more than a designation. They need to have the minimum knowledge to carry on. If you get hit by a bus, if you end up in the hospital, if you leave, I always say win the lottery or you win the lottery and decide that to retire. They need to not miss a beat because this is a 365 day a year thing. Your audit might only be two days, but you should be practicing these requirements every single day. So your backup, it needs to be more than just a designation as a backup. Call them co-practitioners and you guys split the duties however you want to do it, but make sure that they have the knowledge to carry on if something unforeseen happens.

Tammie Van Buren: Exactly. And to add to that, we are really emphasizing to our auditors that, when they're going to these audits, they're having to determine the knowledge and competency of the practitioner and they should be determining that for the backup practitioner as well. so auditors are now asking more often to talk to the practitioner and the backup. it's not mandatory that they're there for the audit. maybe they did win the lottery and they're on a beach somewhere. but the idea is that they would be able to determine their knowledge and competency for both the primary and the backup. So, as Kim said, make sure your backup knows what's going on because they might have to step in at some point. So, we that's probably that's that's a common non-conformance. somebody leaves the month before the audit and then nobody knows where records are stored or how to access, a password protected computer. So, we see it quite often. So, make sure. Okay. Couple more questions came in. I'm gonna let you answer that one and I'll take the next one.

Oh, okay. so bakery production. so sounds like you do have quite a lot going on. fryer products, oven baked, nitrogen, frozen, raw dough. So, I it sounds like to me you probably have at least three HACCP plans going on there. again, your CB would work with you and they would help you to determine that. But just based on what you said there, I kind of get the feeling you're probably looking at least three HACCP plans. So yeah, so next question, minimum knowledge. What certifications do they need to have, Kim?

Kim Sobotka: Okay. So, number one, both practitioners need to have the principle of hassups through the accredited International HACCP Alliance. you can look that up or I don't know if that's me mentioned on the SQF website, but it's the International HACCP Alliance. Now, let's talk about the SQF practitioner training on the bar the UR code that Koo posted earlier. When you get to the SQF website, there is a course that is it's SQF practitioner course. It's not mandatory, but it certainly doesn't hurt. What that's going to do is if you show that certificate, the auditor is going to know that you went through this approved training course for SQF practitioners and that you've gotten all of the relevant information. Now, do you walk out and forget it tomorrow? Maybe. But it at least helps to show competency. So, so if you're going to because of budget constraints not hire a consultant to help you and that's totally fine to do. If HACCP, you'll be able to do this. Taking that SQF practitioner course will give you the core competency that you're going to need to maintain an SQF system.

Not everything, but again, once you take it, then you reach out to your CB for additional clarification if needed. Yeah. Yeah.

Tammie Van Buren: Yeah. Great point. Not mandatory, but it is recommended. and we don't mention the HACCP alliance in the code. What we say in the glossary is that it has to be a rec recognized course by a recognized institution. And that is a point of emphasis for 2026. We are talking to our certification bodies maybe at our CB meeting coming up to emphasize that with their auditors. It can't be Tammie's HACCP course that I offered to for six hours. So it has to be a reputable recognized organization and course. so making sure that we're getting good HACCP training. Okay. let's see. All right. We got we got a couple minutes left for a couple more questions. Will an audit not happen if your backup has taken a leave of absent recently? Well, David, your audit's going to happen. regardless, you have you have some flexibility with your initial certification. So you'll work with your CB to schedule that initial audit but once you're in the SQF certification program then your certificate your re-registration or your recertification audit happens annually plus or minus 30 days from your initial certification date. And it's going to happen.

If you are operating, your audit is going to happen. There's not there's not a way to delay that because somebody's on vacation. So, yeah. oh, now we've got several questions coming in. the new I'm happy to take the next two, Tammie. Go ahead. Absolutely.

Kim Sobotka: Okay. So, Greg is asking, "Will the new PCQI Version 2 certification be okay?" No. Even though PCQI covers HACCP, you need the HACCP course. oh, wait, wait, Kim. We got a change coming.

Tammie Van Buren: Okay. Well, no, actually the change already took place. Okay, good. Well, then I'll just sit here pretty for 2025. Okay. the new PCQI Version 2 training has enough HACCP coverage in it that SQF actually took the course and said we would accept the PCQI Version 2 that started in 2025. So, so that's something new that probably Kim and I just haven't talked about yet. So, I'm sorry, Greg. That's a good question. I'm glad it was asked too. So yeah. So go ahead.

Kim Sobotka: Okay. So Abby do HACCP certifications need to be renewed? Okay. HACCP was born in 1964 and it's not changed very much since then. Much I what I try to say is every five years not because has changed but as a refresher to remind you of everything that you're supposed to be doing. So, it's not a requirement. Will a seven-year-old certificate satisfy the auditor? Yeah, probably. But he'll probably, and I don't, Tammie, correct me if it's in the code that it needs to be every five years. But, it as a rule, I don't I think three years would be a little bit too soon on my recommendation, but certainly every five. Again, not because it's changed, but just as a reminder, a refresher. Yeah. Yeah. it I mean it is a great idea to do a refresher. but yeah the escap code does not require it. so HACCP training is HACCP training as Kim said it doesn't really change obviously if there was a big change and they decided to go with 15 steps versus 12 then we might do something on requiring some updated but as of right now we do not require that. So all right three minutes let's see what we can do.

So we currently operate two facilities in different states. Primary location requiring significant infra why we are implementing mirrored eskef systems. We would like to pursue certification for the newer. Is it permissible to certify only the new location provided we maintain consistent? Okay. So esc certification is a site by site certification. So those two facilities in different states have nothing to do with one another. So location A in one state versus location B in another state those two audits are not connected together. So you could get one site certified you could get both sites certified you could do the newer one first. What so because those are two separate sites because SQF's certification is by site. So how do you go about deciding your blackout dates? where your blackout dates are real simple, Corey. Is your facility operating? If your facility is not operating, then that's a blackout date. if it is operating, then by the SQF code requirements, you cannot consider that a blackout date.

So, are you is your door open or not is the way that you decide those blackout dates. will they accept SQF practitioner with HACCP and PCQI certified within three years as of today. So again, you're getting very specific. So your practitioner has to have HACCP training. PCQI training is not even a requirement. the FDA no longer requires PC, it's not mandatory for PCQI training to be conducted. Even if you have to have a PCQI, it's not mandatory that you have PCQI training. So, and then the last question, it's the last one. This is it. Is there a definitive document record checklist that a first-time SQF beginner can refer to for food manufacturing? Okay, next slide here. We are doing it. Guidance documents, training resources. you go to our website, there are you can download a free copy of the SQF checklist so that you can make sure you cover everything. It's there. It's available. Kim, talk to us about KMA. What do you got as far as resources there?

Kim Sobotka: Okay, real quick, Devon, I believe I'm pronouncing your name right. use this QR code. It'll take you to the website. We give you step by step what the steps are to SQF certification. They're going to vary slightly from what SQF says because we're a certification body. So, it's different than SQF, of course. but all of the documents and checklists are on the SQFI website. she had shared the code earlier with you. You just have to determine basically what your food sector is. So most companies fall within the manufacturing code. There is a cheat sheet where you can go in and see confectionary appendix one. Yep. and so and that's in appendix one of the SQF code. Once you decide that it tells you what code and then the checklist is sitting right next to the code for you to download. I always suggest the new timers to look at the checklist first and if you need reference, go back and review the entirety of it in the code. Go ahead, Tammie. Yeah.

Tammie Van Buren: Yeah. No, just putting up SQF Unites. That's our annual conference coming up in two weeks. I'll be there. Kim very possibly will be there and we'd love to talk to you more. so seek us out in St. Louis. This is the first time we've been in St. Louis and so it's going to be a great conference. Can't wait. All kinds of information and education sessions and speakers and knowledge swap so you can talk to other people in the industry. Highly encourage. We're registration is open. I think we still even have the early bird maybe rooms. I think there's still a few of those left. So please join us in St. Louis. in everybody that attends the SQF Unites is happy to help. You'll be given a firsttime badge. Anybody that you talk to will be able to help whether you're with SQF or a certification body. It's a great conference. Exactly. So, here's our contact information. Feel free to reach out again. Thank you all for joining us. And Kim, thank you as always and hopefully I'll see you in a couple weeks. I'll see you soon. Thank you everybody.